[=IRFC= mols]

I've wanted to post about this for a while... But now I think it's even needed more especially since we've grown to 13 and often take half the population of the people currently on the ToW server.

I want to fly together as a squad as much as anyone. We seem to do very well with teamwork, and have some very talented pilots in our squad. But it seems it is usually way too one sided. This really makes it frustrating for some people, especially if they're starting out. I have started to see some of the people frustrations, so there would be a lot more that aren't quite as vocal about it.

I really think we need to start splitting up, especially when it gets wayyyy too one sided. I have started to switch, but there is no way I can make the difference on a side not working together. It's kind of unfortunate, but there are no other squads that frequent the ToW server. I would really love a challenge where we could all hop on one side against another squad. It just can't happen most the time.

I don't find it fun winning on a side where it's a shallacking after another. I don't think we grow as pilots when it is always too easy. I think it would be more fun for everyone when the sides are more equal. It will help us improve our skills.. (It may seem we will be hurting each others stats) But really in the long run it will just make better pilots out of us. This will also make it more fun for the other people that play on ToW. If there is stiff competition on one side, by all means, let's play together. It just seems it's rare to have one side working together that isn't IRFC/10NS along with the people that want to fly with us on TS.

I admit I prefer to play the Allied side, but I don't mind switching every other mission. Now that I finally have put some hours on the Dr.I, I actually think I am much better dogfighter against it. I think it's a win/win for everyone.

So why don't we try to split up across sides if it's needed, just take turns and always mixing people up that are playing together. Maybe using the Allied and Central TS channels too, so we can be competitive as possible. I know some have more problems than others flipping out of the game. I have noticed you can assign a button to switching channels. It is under Hotkeys, then under "Switch To". I did Alt+1 and Alt+2 for Next Channel and Previous Channel, or use whatever keys/buttons you want. So for me, if I'm in Allied, I hit Alt+2 to move to Central, and Alt+1 to move back. (Pretty slick!)

Within the next day or so, I will also post about how I've setup my notifications so you can hear who joins and leaves the channel.

Thoughts? Thought I'd post this in General so 10NS or any others can give their opinion as well.

=IRFC= mols

[Tow Air Marshal]

Thats a good post adn well said mols

I am very pleased IRFC is growing progressively and its all very encouraging. I wish I could spend more time on the game to try to improve myself and also try to recruit for 10NS. It seems all the new pilots join IRFC.

The reason I am mentioning this is that it would be great if we were even sizes amd similar attendance as then we could always oppose each other and switch sides each mission. But we are not. I would suggest that you have enough now to split into two sections of 5 ish and fly opposing ech other (separate comms as you describe) - Obviously you would need to make sure that you had an even split of pilot skills which would also increase the learnng of the newer pilots.

Just some thoughts on the matter...

Gos

PS - Please post those nice little tweaks to teamspeak in the Hangar, mols. Thanks.

[SC/JG_Oesau]

Setup a keybinding export so everyone in the group has the same bindings (link it as a file download in TS3).

As for the teams, yes, there are two ways to deal with this IMHO:

1 - split the group so that you have someone to fly against.
2 - missions with AI (at the moment of course after the 1 minute mark if there isn't a take off the aircraft is deactivated).

[ToW_Fuby]

Progress will do this..:) I have noticed on the RoF main forums the ToW server is mentioned as aces that stack.
I also see it get defense that those aces that fly here will be as helpful to anyone if they get on teamspeak..;)

I don't play as often anymore..never been into progress..just like the starts..:)
but have always been one to take the plane not liked and the shorter side..but I am no ace. (arse maybe)
With that said, seems most that do fly on a regular basis here swap up. Hats off to those that do.
Spliting to Central side has always been an issue on teamspeak, as most here do like Allies. this has happened in other games we supported.

Never have figured that out... There might be another option... Someone start a Central based Squad..
Just because we are based in Allies does not mean we can't..:)
Just a thought...

This post has been edited by ToW_Fuby: 08 February 2010 - 07:47 PM

[Tow Air Marshal]

Good thoughts Fuby

Gos

[SC/JG_Oesau]

Well I hope that people swap what side they fly for in terms of balancing, can't blame people that don't want to but if AI aren't in the mission and all go on one side the mission is pointless (other than bombing a train or shooting down a balloon - that happened to me last night, all on one side so it didn't go very far).

[ToW_Fuby]

SC/JG_Oesau, on 08 February 2010 - 09:30 PM, said:

Well I hope that people swap what side they fly for in terms of balancing, can't blame people that don't want to but if AI aren't in the mission and all go on one side the mission is pointless (other than bombing a train or shooting down a balloon - that happened to me last night, all on one side so it didn't go very far).

The reason we don't use AI in the flying machines, is kinda two fold...

1) The server was put up as a team vs team server with all human pilots.
with some sort of objective other than just dogfight, Hopefully it remains that way.

2) The lag that AI causes to dual processors and actually most systems out weighs the fun you experience with it.
it is just terrible on alot of players systems.. I know this for fact, I was one of them..:)
This can even be felt in just air starts when the AI drops down and out, imagine the lag/warp in a furball.

This post has been edited by ToW_Fuby: 08 February 2010 - 11:55 PM

[=IRFC=Comet]

I agree entirely with evening up the sides and I've always said that the =IRFC= is willing to do this when necessary.
It is part of our squad philosophy of fair play.
Each of our squad members has been informed of this and agrees with this philosophy.
We would not have members in our squad who did not agree.
I remember one mission where someone accused us of stacking the sides but at the time we were waiting for more people to join and then decide.
I explained this in chat but got no reply.
Nothing had started yet and it seemed to me he was jumping to conclusions.
I usually try to post if we are waiting on people in chat beforehand but sometimes forget (especially if I'm talking on TS at the time ).
I understand that if someone is not on TS it can be harder to know exactly what is happening during plane setup.
I'm not sure how many people would characterize our squad as "aces who stack", especially if they have played with us more than a few times and know our character.
In any event, until now I was unaware that some people had this unfortunate impression of our squad.
In my opinion we have always tried to even the teams and I think the majority of people who play with us frequently would testify to this.
We are a squad. We like to practice and play together as a squad (isn't that the point?), but we are always commited to fair play and we do split up if necessary.
We frequently play missions where we are outnumbered but we don't consider it "stacking".
It seems to me that we are rarely all on the same side playing together most missions. There are usually always at least one or two on the other side to even it up as necessary.
When we do get the rare opportunity,when most of the squad is actually online at the same time, I might ask other players to take this into consideration and maybe switch to let us play/practice together at least once.
If agreed, we would return the favor and split up again next time, etc. but somehow I don't see this happening.
The numerical limitations of each team within the missions of ROF is a deciding factor and will probably not change soon.
Ideally we would have missions that could host more people at once, squad wars etc. but at this time they dont exist (and that is nobody's fault).
Hopefully in the future we will have the opportunity for gameplay involving more players and I think we all look forward to that.
We are fortunate to have many talented and capable pilots in our squad.
I realize that a numerical advantage/disadvantage does not necessarily equate to success in ROF misions.
It often comes down to the individual pilot's skill and of that we have no control.
If our squad needs to split up constantly to keep things fair each mission then that is what we will do.
I thought we had already been doing this but apparently some people disagree.
I am honestly surprised that some people have this view of our squad because I have always endeavoured to have our actions match our words and I always espouse fair play.
I was unaware of these feelings so we will make an extra effort to keep everyone happy, to the benefit of us all.
The =IRFC= is commited to honorable, fair play and always will be.
Any suggestions regarding this issue are welcome.

[=IRFC= mols]

Comet I don't think this is an issue yet.. There's been the odd complaint, but a lot of people complain.

Just thought we could just strive to switch it up a little before it does become one. There was one night where Allied pulverized Central into the ground a dozen times in a row. The only people on TS in Central was me and Parazaine, and there was nothing we could do to change the "pulverizing." I don't mind at all, in fact I'd rather be on the receiving side, better too hard than too easy! But I can understand this could be frustrating to some people.

I just thought we could bounce around the teams more to make it more fun for everyone. Even you can switch TS channels easy now, should make it fun flying with different people on comms and having different people lead.

ToW_Fuby said:

1) The server was put up as a team vs team server with all human pilots.
with some sort of objective other than just dogfight, Hopefully it remains that way.

Fuby I sure hope so too!

[SC/JG_Oesau]

Don't get me wrong, I am all for Human vs Human but am a fan of co-ops with a mix of AI as well depending on the numbers per side.

Understand about the current resource issues with the co-ops running with AI at this point in time.

[=IRFC=Comet]

Mols, you decided to post here so I will reply here.
Once again, I agree.
I'm not sure why this is an issue so suddenly though.
I'm not sure why you've been "thinking about it for a while now".
It's been what, two days since we've had 13 in the squad?
We've welcomed five new people in the last 2 days!
Patience please. lol
Before that it was (maybe) about 5 of us in a game at any given time, not what I would consider overwhelming odds for anyone as we were usually split up to even it out anyway.
The one day you were talking about, yes we were successful, some missions in a row.
That was one of the first days with many our new squad mates and we were working well together, which was great.
We were not colliding, getting shot down or getting blown out of the sky by direct flak hits as much as usual.
It seems natural to me that new members want to get to know each other and fly together right after joining a new squad which is what we were doing that first day.
As we had new squadmates I felt it incumbent on me to start working together immediately, not to split us up right after joining up.
That was what I was concentrating on that day.
If we were "pulverizing" people, perhaps I can be forgiven for having my mind on other things at the time, like leading the squadron.
Now that we suddenly have a larger squad, yes, of course we have more things to consider and we will work it out.
Just give us time please, like I said it's been a whole 2 days.
Earlier tonight I told you I had already thought about this before I even read your post, remember?
You know that we have always evened out the teams, you were there.
Remember when it was just you, me and Helmut.?
We were usually the ones outnumbered by the Germans. lol
Now that we have more people, assuming we have many on at the same time, we will figure it out.
We can divide ourselves depending on how many of us are in the mission and how many/who the enemy is in the mission.
It shouldn't be too hard.
You and others have seen me offer the lead to different squadmates already.
Right from the start it was my suggestion that this would be a part of our squad philosophy and I've done it.
We will continue to do it and whomever is comfortable leading a mission is always welcome to.

[=IRFC=Bender]

If you come and play on ToW and you choose for whatever reason not to use TeamSpeak to carry out a coordinated assault with your teammates, you should expect to be very cautious, very lucky or very dead.

The problem with most players, is that they think they are the next incarnation of Red Manny and can singlehandedly turn the -- ahum -- tides of war all by their lonesome.



Obviously, I'm biased because of my flying style.

I'm almost naturally attracted to someone's shadow and I consider myself to be a natural born wingman. It's the position I feel most comfortable and most efficient in, while simply having the most fun. The world has leaders and followers and I'd rather be the best follower I can be than a mediocre leader.

This said, I have tremendous respect for our top aces, our leaders, mols, Comet and Darling. And it's true, they do have an implied duty to muster the community and to even out the teams. That doesn't mean, however, that they should be scorned for cooperating with each other. It's what flying together is all about in the first place.



What I propose to remedy all this is simple: encourage everyone to always fly with a buddy.

We should respectfully educate people that come and fly on ToW that the smallest fighting unit is not a single fighter, but two (or more): a leader and his wingman (or wingmen).

Even if there is no clearly noticeable hierarchy aloft, there should always be at least two. A man by himself is nothing but cannon fodder. This will playfully encourage people to cooperate, be it with IRFC people or others, and to use TeamSpeak. The problem should eventually go away by itself.

Others will make the move to CoCos for all their stomach-churning shoulder-shooting back-stabbing vulching AirQuake action they so strongly desire.



As an afterthought, one last idea.

How about we have some true coops on the server?

As in: every human player flies on the same side against a (much larger) enemy AI force.

These types of coop games are always loads of fun.

This post has been edited by =IRFC=Bender: 09 February 2010 - 01:36 PM

[ToW_Fuby]

I don't see it as an issue. You guys do a fine job splitting up, and wouldn't think to much on it.
maybe it was more of a reminder? Might have come up due to recent posting on the RoF forums..
You know, people that get shot down usually find some reason other than my reason..I suck!

[Tow Air Marshal]

Chaps

What an excellent set of posts above. I can't even start to quote some of the good points made above. There are too many.

This thread, being in the General Forum, broadcasts clearly to the RoF Community that we at Tidesofwar, as I consider all this to apply to 10NS ad well as IRFC, are positively thinking about how we are percieved by the wider community and the efforts we are making to minimise any misconceptions the RoF Community may have about our Squadrons and server.

There are a number of good ideas to try out. Coops, Splitting Squads into Flights, sharing leadership around, etc. These can be tried in slow time.

To try to plicate the probable minority that may have expressed concern in the RoF Forums, may I suggest that when posting replys in those forums we remember to hyperlink to these Tidesofwar Forums to allow those expressing concern to easily see what we are doing to minimise their concerns. I don't want to stop people expressing concerns because it allows us to ensure we are maintaing the best quality server we can, but guiding them to express on our forums will allow us to take appropraite action (if any) as quickly as possible.

All in all, this thread is well worth the conversation and assures me, as Air Marshal and thus RESPONSIBLE (not "in charge" of) Air Games, that the philosophies and codes of conduct of tidesofwar.net are being vIgarously upheld.

Well done Gentlemen.

Gosling
Air Marshal
Tidesofwar.net

[=IRFC= mols]

I didn't mean to make it sound like we were doing anything wrong.

I want to fly as a squad as much as we can. I just thought if need be, it's pretty easy for us to switch channels in game. And it's easy to mix it up if we need to.

Edit: It also wasn't targeted to IRFC, but everyone.. Which is why I posted it here.

This post has been edited by =IRFC= mols: 09 February 2010 - 07:54 PM